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Thread: ADS-B Weather??

  1. #31
    As long as you have an "s-CPU" unit (Serial number begins with 61xxx), the ADS-B box will work and will provide the weather features. Those features have not been developed yet, but they will include Nexrad, Metar's, TAF's, TFR's, winds, lighting...etc. The FIS service is indeed free from the government. When it is all up and running across the country and the software is finished to display the data on our EFIS, there will be no logical reason I can think of to go with XM...
    ---
    Trevor Conroy
    Technical Support
    Advanced Flight Systems
    Support@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com

  2. #32

    Here are a couple of reasons why you might not want ADS-B

    Quote Originally Posted by jkgoblue View Post
    I have been contemplating this move and am excited about the prospects. I'm I to understand correctly that I will get the exact same weather displays on my 3500, ie, METAR's, TAF's NEXRAD, etc., that would with XM? And for free no less? Plus traffic! Is there any reason why I would want XM over ADS-B?

    Thanks.
    I can think of a few.

    First, since ADS-B comes from ground stations which are far apart, you generally will not get ADS-B on the ground or at low altitude - including pattern altitude. So you may not reliably receive traffic targets from ADS-B OUT during the most critical portion of flight, departure and arrival, where the biggest chance for a conflict exists. That is a BIG negative for me. Forget about being able to sit in your aircraft on the ramp and checking for TFRs or enroute weather on a cross country, too.

    Second, traffic, when it is received from ADS-B, is simply displayed on the screen, with no aural warning, and (I believe), no arrow showing direction of flight. So unless you constantly have your eyes glued to that screen, you may miss closing traffic. Compare this to the output from a Mode S transponder like the GTX-330, which provides both aural warnings and visible tracks on the screen showing direction so you can tell at a glance whether a target presents a conflict to your aircraft.

    Third, ADS-B is not free, the transceiver from Navworx is $2700 (and you need the transceiver, not the receiver to reliably get traffic near you), while an XM receiver can be had for around a quarter of that price. It will take around 5 or 6 years for you to break even paying the XM subscription, buying the ADS-B receiver.

    And fourth, the weather product received from the government is purported to be less feature rich than what you can receive from private sources like XM.

    Just some food for thought. This is why I'm not excited about being an early adopter on this one.
    Highest Regards,

    Noah F
    RV-7A
    Rhode Island

  3. #33
    First, since ADS-B comes from ground stations which are far apart, you generally will not get ADS-B on the ground or at low altitude - including pattern altitude. So you may not reliably receive traffic targets from ADS-B OUT during the most critical portion of flight, departure and arrival, where the biggest chance for a conflict exists. That is a BIG negative for me. Forget about being able to sit in your aircraft on the ramp and checking for TFRs or enroute weather on a cross country, too.
    This is mostly true. Here near Aurora, OR there is a ground station nearby, so we can get lots of traffic targets at airports 30 miles away while still on the ramp here. We have a GTX-330 in the RV-10 as well. Unless you are in the PDX or SEA area...you will not get TIS traffic. ADS-B covers a MUCH larger area (around here at least).

    Second, traffic, when it is received from ADS-B, is simply displayed on the screen, with no aural warning, and (I believe), no arrow showing direction of flight. So unless you constantly have your eyes glued to that screen, you may miss closing traffic. Compare this to the output from a Mode S transponder like the GTX-330, which provides both aural warnings and visible tracks on the screen showing direction so you can tell at a glance whether a target presents a conflict to your aircraft.
    Traffic through the display port on the ADS600-B does give target track, so you can see an arrow with the direction of the traffic. Eventually we will give audible warnings when a target gets within a certain distance of your aircraft (using the generally accepted TCAS standards).

    It will take around 5 or 6 years for you to break even paying the XM subscription, buying the ADS-B receiver.
    This is true, however since ADS-B will be a standard here eventually, it will eventually replace your transponder which means you only have to buy one box. I think the savings would really come there if you look at the price of a GTX-327 or -320A. Of course a lot can change in 5 years....

    Definitely not a bad idea to hold out on ADS-B.....a lot will change over the next several years...however those with it are reporting excellent results and satisfaction to us.
    ---
    Trevor Conroy
    Technical Support
    Advanced Flight Systems
    Support@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com

  4. #34
    RV-10 owner Tim Olson recently wrote an interesting report about ADS-B performance on a trip to the west coast.

    http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/Trips/C...010/index.html

  5. #35
    A picture is work a thousand words so...


    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    I have been helping AFS with beta testing the ADS-B software.
    The 496 is using TIS-A protocol and the 3500 is using TIS-B protocol.
    Notice that the vector lines from the targets let you know which way the plane is going. Also that the TIS-A only show 2 targets while the TIS-B is showing 7. ADS-B will go out to 200 miles with targets, don't see that as being very useful, but going out more then 7 that TIS-A is limited to is very useful.
    I also like the 3500 display as I can see the plane that is trying to approach me from behind.

    I usually don't get any targets while I am still on the ground, but by the time I am a couple hundread feet I start picking up tragets. I also see targets that are landing at airports only a couple hundread feet before they touch down.
    Kent
    Last edited by kentb; 11-05-2010 at 08:48 AM.

  6. #36
    This is all very informative. Still, my first desire was getting weather right now and still trying to decide on XM or ADS-B. Since I only have a GTX 327, I'd have to add another box for traffic to get a comparable system. But for weather only, XM seems like a logical choice. (but where would we be without those early adopters?)

    I'd be interested to see weather pictures via ADS-B on the 3500 as soon as AFS has the software updated.

    Either way, I'm having my 3500 updated to "s" next month. Are people with XM happy with their set up?
    John Kazickas
    Sands Point, NY
    Glasair Sportsman N9GZ

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jkgoblue View Post
    This is all very informative. Still, my first desire was getting weather right now and still trying to decide on XM or ADS-B. Since I only have a GTX 327, I'd have to add another box for traffic to get a comparable system. But for weather only, XM seems like a logical choice. (but where would we be without those early adopters?).........
    If you consider having wx in the cockpit an essential tool that you can't fly without and you must have it now, than yes, xm is probably your only bet. Unfortunately, every dime you spend towards xm now is wasted money and you will be paying subscription monthly charges as well. As more people leave xm, expect your subscription costs to rise. XM hasn't done well financially and I wouldn't be surprised if they drop wx support as I doubt they receive enough in subscription charges to be cost beneficial to them. Just my opinion.

    You might ask AFS when they expect to release support for weather. You might find that it will be available in part or whole about the time you send your 3500 in for update to the "s" chip.

    In regards to investing in something new, Bill at NavWorx's assured me that any software changes are free and in case of a unforeseen change it the specs requiring hardware changes, we would receive full credit of our current unit towards the new unit. That pretty well protects your investment. Their the first to receive FAA certification so at least the FAA agrees that they meet the specs and they also used NavWorx's unit in their own testing of ADS-B system.
    Last edited by kbehrent; 11-08-2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: grammar

  8. #38
    Trevor,

    It hasn't been quite a full quarter yet, but I'm curious how the progress is going. Any estimates when we might see compatibility being pushed out to the masses??

  9. #39
    We have traffic working now and are working on getting weather. We are pretty close to having a software release with at least METAR's, TAF's, TFR's, and local Nexrad radar. I suspect it will be released before the end of January.
    ---
    Trevor Conroy
    Technical Support
    Advanced Flight Systems
    Support@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Conroy View Post
    We have traffic working now and are working on getting weather. We are pretty close to having a software release with at least METAR's, TAF's, TFR's, and local Nexrad radar. I suspect it will be released before the end of January.

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