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Thread: 4500sEE, ARINC, GNS430 (non-waas), GTX327, AFS Pilot wiring/configuration

  1. #11
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    Excellent! I'll start the search for a serial out GPS puck I can use to feed the EFIS on serial #2, NMEA/ICARUS 9600 baud.

    I'm going to show some more of my non-IFR-rated ignorance.

    Some time back, I got the impression that with the 2nd, faster-update-rate GPS available to the EFIS, the display (especially pitch/roll info) would update faster and smoother. Assuming I got that right, does this actually get me anything when the 430 is legally required (IFR) to be doing the navigating? If so, is there any special trick to having the 430's old slow gps driving nav/approach, and the faster GPS helping the screen show me what I'm actually doing? Or is this simply a 'GNAV or GPS2; pick one' situation?

    Again, pardon my Very Foolish Retarded questions.


    Charlie

  2. #12
    Only the AF-5000 has the ability to use the Dynon GPS-250 to drive the synthetic vision while following a GPS Navigator. The Pitch, Roll and Heading comes from the AHRS and has nothing to do with the GPS.
    Rob Hickman
    Advanced Flight Systems Inc.

  3. #13
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    Thanks Rob; I'm beginning to get a clearer idea of how it all works together.

    Charlie

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by larco View Post
    ... the 430 and 430W in this regard are the same. If however you want it to be part of your ADSB equipment then you would need an update to WAAS...
    I wanted to share one minor difference between a 430 and 430W if you ever decide to upgrade. We have a Sportsman that had a 430 that needed repair. Due to the Garmin flat rate pricing for repairs and the fact that an upgrade to a 430W included any repairs to the 430, we elected to go with the 430W upgrade path. The avionics dealer was nice enough to install a 430W loaner during the time that 430 was out to Garmin.

    On a night fight, we turned on the panel/avionics lighting and immediately had the smell of burning electronics and some smoke. After turning off the lighting and appropriate POH procedures, the flight completed without further incident. After inspection, the source of the smell / smoke was the 430W. The avionics shop was none too happy and blamed the original panel provider with mis-wiring and wanted us to pay for the damage to the 430W. We contacted the original panel manufacturer who was quite helpful and told us that there is a known incompatibility between the 430 and 430W lighting connections. There is a Garmin publication that describes this, but he couldn't share the document since it was for dealers only.

    If you do decide at some point to get a 430W, I'd suggest you get that document from Garmin as part of the upgrade. I've looked at the installation manuals and don't see any obvious difference, but perhaps that the problem that the bulletin clarifies.

    Mike

  5. #15
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    OK, after obtaining a configurable gps receiver 'puck' (and months of distractions), I'm back with further questions.
    I've configured the 4500 as shown in Shawn's post #6, with the gps wired to serial #2 <in> (serial #2 <out> to the Garmin 327).
    I've tried the system with GPS nav/data 2 source configured as 'none' and also as 'serial port #2'
    The system is inside a hangar/shop, so the 430 cannot see the sky, therefore I don't get gps lock with the 430, but all the communication tests tell me wiring and config is ok to the 430 and to the 327 xpndr.

    Problem: Even though the new gps puck (positioned outside the hangar with a long serial cable) gets perfect position lock on my PC using its config software and with generic mapping software, the 4500 doesn't seem to see it (map shows the a/c in central FL, where it last flew before I purchased it).
    This is the gps:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/connector-R...72.m2749.l2649

    config software available here:
    https://www.u-blox.com/en/product/u-center
    (I'm running 19.01; apparently they've updated to 19.03 since I downloaded)

    I know that baud rate is 9600, 8 bit, 1 stop bit, no parity, and LSB first, and protocol is NMEA, but the gps's config software offers multiple options for NMEA: DATA0, 1, 2 (currently DATA2), and NMEA version: 2.1, 2.3, 4.0, 4.1 (currently 4.0). There are also options for what data is in each sentence (too many to list).

    So, have I overlooked something in the 4500 setup that keeps it from seeing and using the gps puck, or, is there a configuration that I need to accomplish in the gps puck to make it visible to the 4500? Remember, I'm feeding the gps into serial #2 <in>, configured as NMEA/ICARUS to GTX327.

    As I mentioned earlier, I'm getting map position lock using multiple different mapping software programs on the PC using the gps config shown above. If nothing else, perhaps someone could share the config of their Garmin gps puck that's known to work.

    Thanks for any assistance,

    Charlie
    Last edited by rv7charlie; 04-10-2019 at 01:34 PM.

  6. #16
    Advanced Flight Systems Shawn McGinnis's Avatar
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    I'd probably wire all of this to the DB9 and move whatever is on Serial #4 over to serial #2. The green to the 4500's RXD, with power and ground than the 4500's TXD would go to the 327.

    The EFIS would have Serial #4 configured for NMEA/ICARUS and the GPS/NAV 2 Data Source set for Serial #4.
    Shawn McGinnis

    Advanced Flight Systems
    support@advanced-flight-systems.com

  7. #17
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    Thanks; that would make wiring more convenient, but wiring isn't the problem. I'm now wired like this:

    AHRS Port 0: Crossbow
    Serial Port 1: AVTN/ARNAV to GNS430 (non-WAAS)
    Serial Port 2: NMEA/ICARUS to GTX327
    Serial Port 3: AF-PILOT to AFS Pilot autopilot
    Serial Port 4: ARINC to AF-ARINC


    GPS/NAV 1 Data Source -> Serial Port 4
    GPS/NAV 2 Data Source -> Serial Port 2
    GPS/NAV 3 Data Source -> None
    With the new GPS puck wired to Serial Port 2 <in>

    I did discover at least part of the problem. I found an old post here that described the sentences AFS uses, and that was my 1st clue to where the problem lay.
    http://www.advanced-flight-systems.c...ghlight=garmin

    Required sentences, from that link:
    GPGGA, GPGSA, GPRMC, GPVTG, and PGRMT @ 9600

    I chose this particular GPS puck because it can see multiple satellite constellations in addition to the USA based 'GPS' constellation (Galileo, GLONASS, BeiDou, etc) and can use any two constellations at the same time. My motivation was this: we have degraded or disabled GPS coverage for 'testing' here in the southeast periodically, so I hoped that by using a multi-constellation receiver, I'd have a cheap & easy workaround for VFR navigation.
    BUT...
    By comparing the required sentence list from the thread above with my device's sentence list, I saw extra sentences from other constellations and one GPS sentence not in the list in the link. So, I disabled all constellations except GPS, and turned off the one GPS sentence that didn't appear in the list above. The only sentence that I couldn't find in my device was 'PGRMT'. I wondered if that was a typo & should have been 'GPRMT', but couldn't find that one either, in my device nor in a generic list of NMEA sentences.
    So...

    With only the GPS constellation turned on, and only sentences GPGGA, GPGSA, GPRMC, GPVTG, running @ 9600 baud, I got a position fix on the AFS map screen.
    Questions remaining:

    Is the 'PGRMT' sentence required for actual navigation? (I'm stationary in the hangar for now)

    Has AFS considered a software patch that would let the EFIS see & use the other satellite constellations?

    Thanks,

    Charlie

  8. #18
    Advanced Flight Systems Shawn McGinnis's Avatar
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    That list is the setup for the 18-5Hz puck. PGRMT is not used by the Advanced Deck displays.

    You should be able to configure the Ublox's Main Talker ID to 1 - GP (GPS) and avoid the system dependent output while still broadcasting multi-constellation data.

    The AF-4500 can consume:
    $GPRMB, $GPRMC, $GPGGA, $GPGSA, $GPBOD, $GPAPB, $GPRTE, $GPWPL
    Shawn McGinnis

    Advanced Flight Systems
    support@advanced-flight-systems.com

  9. #19
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    Excellent; exactly what I need to move forward. Many thanks!

  10. #20
    It works. You can truly have a second GPS anyway I do believe it will require it's own successive port. At the point when this is working successfully and if you have an extra consecutive port call AFS for a gathering mechanical assembly elective.

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