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Thread: G530W/5600/TruTrak Gemini combo

  1. #1

    G530W/5600/TruTrak Gemini combo

    Any chance there is a schematic out there that ensures proper functionality of this combination? I have the ARINC box and of course the RS232 sources available (whether they are hooked up correctly or not, is another matter). The 5600 will accept a flight plan including an approach from the 530W and with some "random" [!] button pushing, will display it on the 5600 map page. The Gemini will not fly the flight plan however, as far as I can tell either through the 5600 AP controller or through being engaged by it's on controller on its face. My harnesses came from Stein's but I'm guessing that my not understanding 'what was supposed to do what' in this system (I have no glass experience) insured that I didn't tell them the correct functionality and hook-ups that I should have or wanted.

    Will the Gemini in fact work properly in this arrangement and if so, how? Do I control it exclusively through the 5600's internal AP controller or does it's own control system need to be involved somehow? If I create a simple internal 5600 flight plan, direct to any fix and engage the Gemini using its own controller, it works well and the steering and vertical accuracies are normal. I don't know how to create a complex internal 5600 flight plan and assume that any such are only supposed to be transferred into the 5600 from an outside GPS navigator such as my 530W. If there is a way to do that purely internally, I haven't found it in any of the documents I've been able to find nor on any of the Youtube tutorials I've been able to find.

    Regardless, my real question is whether or not the combination of my 530, the 5600, and my Gemini autopilot (which I like for its small size and backup EFIS features) can be made to provide the full functionality promised by the superb AFS 5600 EFIS system? Right now whole suite is pretty much just a glorified synthetic 6-pack with a moving map.

    Any guidance to a suitable manual (the "factory" manual doesn't cover this), set of schematics, and of an avionics service provider who can sort all this out for me, would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!


    Lee...
    Last edited by Lee Logan; 10-06-2017 at 06:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Advanced Flight Systems Shawn McGinnis's Avatar
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    If you put the EFIS in LAT:HDG V:ALT does the AP should respond when placed into GPSS or EFIS mode.

    AF-5000 ADSB GTX430 AP GTX330.pdf
    Shawn McGinnis

    Advanced Flight Systems
    support@advanced-flight-systems.com

  3. #3
    Shawn: Thanks for checking in. I actually went on a test flight yesterday with my "avionics buddy" Raymo in the back seat. With his help we were able to test a large number of options for getting the system to function correctly. I'm enclosing the email I just sent to the VAF site (in the avionics section under AFS EFIS Survival Tips). Sorry it is more than a bit wordy, but it's intended only to help those who are as confused by their somewhat kluged up systems as I am. If any of this doesn't sound right, please let me know:

    Okay: Hope this doesn't bore anyone who already understands all this, but for those like me who don't, Raymo and I finally got out on a good navigation test flight yesterday.

    The point of sharing all of this is that there may be others who have kludged up systems like mine (I only did this to get ADSB-out; the 5600 EFIS is over and above). Unlike me, probably most people are buying fully integrated systems in the first place, whether AFS, Dynon, or Garmin, etc. and not trying to make a home-spun setup like mine behave correctly. A second problem is that I don’t know all the terms properly yet. Rob: As a result, I misnamed my Course CDI source, it is GNAV1, not GPS1. Another was that I was not aware of how the relationship between the GPS navigator, the 5600, and the two different autopilot controllers is supposed to work in my non-standard setup. Regardless, we made some progress on this flight.

    Basically, as I now realize and as my airplane appears to be wired, the TSO'd nav box (430/530/etc) is the normal source for all complex flight plans. That is all except the 5600 direct-to option (excepting the ForeFlight option for the moment). The 530 can provide fltplans to the 5600 and through the 5600 to the TruTrak Gemini. The 5600 can drive the Gemini itself on a direct-to flight but not on plans transferred from the 530. The 530 must drive any fltplan transferred to the 5600 from the 530 itself. If I've got any of this wrong, someone please say so because this is for sure how it seems to work on my system. Note: I understand the 5600 AP will also drive the Gemini on any fltplan loaded directly into INTFP through ForeFlight, including complex flt plans. I haven’t tried that yet.

    And finally, I discovered that I had missed the requirement in the 5600 Pilot's Guide to select Course [CRS] in order to complete the process of transferring the 530 fltplan to the 5600 Map view. After that, my displays seemed to be working as in the Pilot Manual.

    So...yesterday with a flight to a nearby airport and its approach firmly in the 530, we set sail. Sure enough, no amount of fiddling with the internal 5600 autopilot would get the system to fly the fltplan (we were still learning at this point). This attempt was with the Gemini “on” but not “engaged”. Then we engaged the Gemini with the 5600 AP “off”, and just as if it were connected directly to the 530, it came up in GPSS. Voila! For the first time ever, the airplane turned to intercept the course to the first fix in the approach. It wandered about it bit in altitude though, but then on a hunch we adjusted the upper altitude setting on the 5600 AP and engaged it (“altitude” on the 5600AP) and the Gemini settled right down and tracked the approach plate required altitude smoothly. So?…It takes the lateral input from the 530 (flight plan) AND the 5600 (altitude setting and controller) for the Gemini to properly function in my configuration? I would not have thought that---primarily because I understood that the 5600 AP was out of the loop in my configuration. Maybe I could have used the VS and altitude settings on the Gemini to do the same thing, but it is certainly easier to do on the 5600 and appears to work well.

    The big test came when we hit the first fix. For the first time ever, the autopilot turned the airplane in accordance with the fltplan. Hoorah! I did not detect an “early” turn but it wasn’t much of a turn. Next turn was 60+ degrees however, and sure enough the autopilot early-turned it. Things were getting better all the time. This put us on course for the FAF. Throughout (so far) the airplane was locked onto to the approach plate altitude (1,900’). All was going smoothly, with the Gemini (as usual) “demanding” trim changes as I adjusted the Rocket’s speed slowly downwards. The 530 provided all the correct warnings, switched to LPV, and displayed the glide slope bug on the 5600, but the Gemini never lowered the nose at the FAF. Huh? It overflew the airport right down the runway at 1,900’. Darn! Re-engaged the fltplan back direct to the middle fix (to save time). The Gemini flew direct to the selected fix, made in interestingly tight left reversal (which we were warned of in advance by the 530) and re-intercepted the approach plate course back toward the FAF again. This time when we hit the FAF, the Gemini commanded the nose down and with a modest power reduction, we slide down the glide slope like we were on rails! Hands off to minimums (set on the EFIS) and called out by the 5600 audio. The Gemini then leveled us off (right on minimums). Success!

    We ran it a third time, again with no problems, so we’re calling that a win. Still don’t know why it didn’t work on the first try. Weather is shaky today, but I’ll be off tomorrow to try holding, VOR/ILS, etc. And, even though it’s the reason for this system upgrade in the first place, we still have problems with traffic and ADSB weather. We think that is likely a “box” problem with our new hardware. Time will tell.

    Someone tell me if any of this doesn’t sound right. It looks like the 530 to Gemini connection is functioning properly, but additional functionality is available through 5600 EFIS/AP options (altitude hold, level off at minimums, etc) which are provided to the Gemini not by the 530 but by the 5600’s EFIS and AP controller. These functions are apparently “layered” on top of traditional 530/Gemini functionality. Which ones that I haven’t tried yet will work and which won’t, I’m nowhere near through checking out. I’ll need a secretary to keep up with that I expect! Nevertheless, yesterdays flight seemed like a real breakthrough to me.

    Thanks to everyone for the help provided!


    Lee…

  4. #4
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    Shawn, Rob --- I have been following the discussion in the VANSAIRFORCE (RV) forum and am having the same issues as Lee. In my case (5600T, Vizion 385, GTN 650), I can put a flight plan in the 650 and it does transfer to the EFIS (GNAV1) and I get the magenta lines. However, when I select the AP page and engage the autopilot, it comes up in "Heading" mode, with altitude hold. The "NAV" function shows "armed" (dim yellow light). Trying to engage "nav" or get out of heading mode does not work.
    I have tried the stuff mentioned on the RV forum, by Rob, and others, but have not been successful in getting the EFIS/AP to nav.------

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronsim View Post
    Shawn, Rob --- I have been following the discussion in the VANSAIRFORCE (RV) forum and am having the same issues as Lee. In my case (5600T, Vizion 385, GTN 650), I can put a flight plan in the 650 and it does transfer to the EFIS (GNAV1) and I get the magenta lines. However, when I select the AP page and engage the autopilot, it comes up in "Heading" mode, with altitude hold. The "NAV" function shows "armed" (dim yellow light). Trying to engage "nav" or get out of heading mode does not work.
    I have tried the stuff mentioned on the RV forum, by Rob, and others, but have not been successful in getting the EFIS/AP to nav.------

    When you select NAV mode the autopilot will be in ARM mode and the NAV touch button will be dark yellow. The autopilot will continue to use HDG mode or TRK mode until the GPS ground track is within 30 degrees of the selected course and the cross-track error is within 80%, then the autopilot will automatically change to NAV mode and the NAV touch button will turn green and should follow the EFIS CDI.

    If you are having problems email me a picture of your EFIS display in flight so I can see what is happening.

    Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com
    Rob Hickman
    Advanced Flight Systems Inc.

  6. #6
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    Rob, thanks to your explanation, I was able to go out, today, and get everything working --- I also posted the success on the RV forum. I really like the 5600T system and look forward to exploring all of the great options that are available.

    Ron

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