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Thread: Trutrak Sorcerer compatibility with AF 5000 series

  1. #1

    Trutrak Sorcerer compatibility with AF 5000 series

    Greetings from 'down under' (Australia) - I'm new to this forum and would appreciate your advice.

    I have an IFR Wheeler Express, currently running 'steam gauges', Garmin 430W and a Trutrak Sorcerer autopilot. I am seriously thinking of upgrading to a AF 5000 to replace the steam gauges.
    I have been advised (by Trutrak) that the Sorcerer will work with the AF 5000 - but I'm unclear as to exactly how much functionality to expect. My particular questions are:
    (1) Will the AF 5000 show Flight Director commands when linked to the Sorcerer / GNS 430W?
    (2) Will Roll steering be available also through the EFIS with this set-up?

    If anyone has any experience with a Sorcerer and AF 5000, I would greatly value your input!

    Cheers
    Dentoflyer

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoflyer View Post
    Greetings from 'down under' (Australia) - I'm new to this forum and would appreciate your advice.

    I have an IFR Wheeler Express, currently running 'steam gauges', Garmin 430W and a Trutrak Sorcerer autopilot. I am seriously thinking of upgrading to a AF 5000 to replace the steam gauges.
    I have been advised (by Trutrak) that the Sorcerer will work with the AF 5000 - but I'm unclear as to exactly how much functionality to expect. My particular questions are:
    (1) Will the AF 5000 show Flight Director commands when linked to the Sorcerer / GNS 430W?
    (2) Will Roll steering be available also through the EFIS with this set-up?

    If anyone has any experience with a Sorcerer and AF 5000, I would greatly value your input!

    Cheers
    Dentoflyer
    I have dual 4500s with a sorcerer and they work well together. If I remember correctly back some years ago the T/T products needed an update to marry the AFS system and I did that. I want to update to the 5000 series AFS and have been told that it will be a plug and play in that respect. I would email TT with your sorcerer software ID and ask if you need an update, Lucas will know. Additionally I have a switch that will let the EFIS or the 530 control the sorcerer and have done that with a 5600 as well. To clarify I do not believe a switch is recommended with the AFS A/P or necessary. Larry

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by larco View Post
    I have dual 4500s with a sorcerer and they work well together. If I remember correctly back some years ago the T/T products needed an update to marry the AFS system and I did that. I want to update to the 5000 series AFS and have been told that it will be a plug and play in that respect. I would email TT with your sorcerer software ID and ask if you need an update, Lucas will know. Additionally I have a switch that will let the EFIS or the 530 control the sorcerer and have done that with a 5600 as well. To clarify I do not believe a switch is recommended with the AFS A/P or necessary. Larry
    Thanks for the reply Larry.
    Interestingly, I had already been in touch with Lucas at TT asking him what EFIS would give the best integration with the Sorcerer. In particular I was asking about the certified Aspen Evolution 1000, and I expressed my surprise that the Aspen had fairly limited compatibility with the Sorcerer. His answer (in part) is as follows:

    It is surprising, isn't it?

    You are correct in your thinking. Non-certified EFIS units give much better integration with the autopilot. In answer to your questions, the Aspen doesn't output any steering information to the autopilot. They simply don't have any commands going out. The Sorcerer doesn't have a flight director output. (my emphasis)

    Either the AFS 5000 series or Garmin G3X will give you the most integration.

    I hope this helps!


    So, he is suggesting the AFS 5000 for good compatibility (which is my perceived preference due to a bunch of factors). However, from what Lucas has said (and some other stuff that I have read elsewhere) I suspect that there is no ability for the Sorcerer to output Flight director commands - so although the AP will work, its not going to show FD commands on the AF 5000 (or any other EFIS for that matter?)

    Is that your experience Larry re: Flight director command bars?

    Regards
    Dentoflyer

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoflyer View Post
    Thanks for the reply Larry.
    Interestingly, I had already been in touch with Lucas at TT asking him what EFIS would give the best integration with the Sorcerer. In particular I was asking about the certified Aspen Evolution 1000, and I expressed my surprise that the Aspen had fairly limited compatibility with the Sorcerer. His answer (in part) is as follows:

    It is surprising, isn't it?

    You are correct in your thinking. Non-certified EFIS units give much better integration with the autopilot. In answer to your questions, the Aspen doesn't output any steering information to the autopilot. They simply don't have any commands going out. The Sorcerer doesn't have a flight director output. (my emphasis)

    Either the AFS 5000 series or Garmin G3X will give you the most integration.

    I hope this helps!


    So, he is suggesting the AFS 5000 for good compatibility (which is my perceived preference due to a bunch of factors). However, from what Lucas has said (and some other stuff that I have read elsewhere) I suspect that there is no ability for the Sorcerer to output Flight director commands - so although the AP will work, its not going to show FD commands on the AF 5000 (or any other EFIS for that matter?)

    Is that your experience Larry re: Flight director command bars?

    Regards
    Dentoflyer
    I will fly this week and confirm. My type of flying has changed a lot in the last couple of years so I haven’t used the FD with the AP for awhile but memory tells me that when the FD is on, it is on and the roll steering seems to work when in Nav mode. I am hoping to leave on a long trip later in the week so I will try these functions and get back to you.

    I highly recommend sending an email to Rob or Shawn at AFS. I’m sure they can confirm this one way or another as well.

    Larry

  5. #5
    Great, Thanks.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoflyer View Post
    Great, Thanks.
    I spend some time this morning reviewing the AFS manual and reflecting my past experience and talking to my CFII. I realized that I have only used the FD while hand flying, so based on what TT said and they should know more than anyone, You are probably out of luck with the FD with the sorcerer. I was also reminded that I have used the HB most all of the time but remember the roll steering seemed to work when intercepting a nav course.

    If you are making a decision based on my info I would rather you discuss this with the experts at AFS. I just don’t want to miss lead you, causing an expectation not to be there.

    I will say though that when I upgrade to the 5400s I am considering changing also to the AFS AP Vizion because of it’s total compatibly. I apologize for any inconvenience Dentoflyer. I will let you know if I verify anything positive while on the trip.

    An added note. I just talked to TT regarding something else and took the opportunity to pose your question. It seems that non of the efis’s FD’s guide the AP but are commanded by the vert steering and lat signals. This seems to be what I experience and am happy with the way it works. I take off (sorcerer switched to EFIS) with the EFIS set up, push GPSS on the Sorcerer and everything works with the EFIS controls. It does have control wheel steering, they confirmed that. Regards, Larry
    Last edited by larco; 08-17-2015 at 02:36 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by larco View Post
    I spend some time this morning reviewing the AFS manual and reflecting my past experience and talking to my CFII. I realized that I have only used the FD while hand flying, so based on what TT said and they should know more than anyone, You are probably out of luck with the FD with the sorcerer. I was also reminded that I have used the HB most all of the time but remember the roll steering seemed to work when intercepting a nav course.

    If you are making a decision based on my info I would rather you discuss this with the experts at AFS. I just don’t want to miss lead you, causing an expectation not to be there.

    I will say though that when I upgrade to the 5400s I am considering changing also to the AFS AP Vizion because of it’s total compatibly. I apologize for any inconvenience Dentoflyer. I will let you know if I verify anything positive while on the trip.

    An added note. I just talked to TT regarding something else and took the opportunity to pose your question. It seems that non of the efis’s FD’s guide the AP but are commanded by the vert steering and lat signals. This seems to be what I experience and am happy with the way it works. I take off (sorcerer switched to EFIS) with the EFIS set up, push GPSS on the Sorcerer and everything works with the EFIS controls. It does have control wheel steering, they confirmed that. Regards, Larry
    Your observations are helpful, Larry. It seems that Autopilots that generate their own FD commands is very much a thing of the old analog days. The new EFISs generate FD commands internally.
    Shawn from AFS has also given me the following confirmation/ information:

    "The Advanced Flight will calculate and display its own flight director. These commands will then be fed to the autopilot and allow you to fly from the AF-5000 heading, gps track, internal flight plan, 430W, or other nav source.​

    The sorcerer will always be engaged in GPSS mode to follow any of the AF-5000 commands."

    SO, I think I understand how it all works now..... thanks for your help!

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